going to 600cc suzuki motors

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diehl18	going to 600cc suzuki motors	Lead	[-]
Posts: 2 (07/07/08 06:27 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Tags : None I just talked to Joe Poisson in New Hampshire. He was telling me that after having car count problems because of the cost of racing the group had decided to go with the 600 suzuki motor. they had 6 cars when they made the change last year and they now have 25 cars, all running 600's. makes a lot of since to me and they only allow classic body styles.I think there are alot of older cars out there that would come back racing if they could run motors that only cost $500 and everybody has to run stock motors. This is not for everyone but I know there are alot groups out there that are having car count problems. If enough groups would go this route I could see the chances of these groups getting together for 600 classic series in different regions in the country. I 'am not looking to reinvent the wheel just a way to get alot of cars that are sitting back in the game. I know there are alot of cars sitting in Florida that would be perfect for a class like this. I would like to hear some input on this. Thanks Dennis
44Dwarf		#1	[-]
Posts: 997 (07/07/08 06:39 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Dennis. I was one of the founding members of the group with Joe. It works well but only if you find a plentifully motor thats cheap. When we started you could find GSXR 2001 -2003 for $350 for a kit e-bay was flooded with them. The hard part is now 02 and 03 are drying up as todays kids buy and crash 08's The 04-05's some say make more power so the rules have stayed 02-03's for now. If they went to the 04 05's the car count would be even higher IMO. The problem with running 04-05's with the 02-03's is one of the rules is the computer swap! If you place in the top 3 a non top 3 car can claim your computer for the next race and you must use theres. This keeps racers from spending $$ to re-program the box. but it would not work with mixed years. I'm back running with the big motor group with a old 750 oil cooled cause it's what i had left after selling out 2 years ago....I just can't stay away from Dwarfs. Bottom line is hunt e-bay for a cheap motor and get 5 to 10 guys to say they'll do it and the others will follow. Stick to the rules HARD and don't let the little things slide you'll have car count. Good rules enforcement = car count. 44Dwarf Tony Leary "Smok'in the competition NOT Tobacco" "Transplant organs, Don't bury them!" Not to be confused with dwarf44, 44 or Buck44
smooth racer		#2	[-]
Posts: 273 (07/07/08 11:22 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I agree...trying to keep the cost of racing down by going with "stock" motors. Regardless if it is running the 600cc, 750cc, 1000cc stock motors. It's true that the 600cc motors are cheaper than the 750's. And the 750cc motors are cheaper than the 1000's. I think if the demand for the 600 motors are increased....the pricing will be increased as well. I like the thought of going with a smaller motor. I think the racing would become more competitive and with the speeds being slower...you will have less chance of getting hurt and tearing up equipment. I think one of the big factors in car count right now is the cost of towing to the race track. I think a lot of drivers are starting to run their local tracks vs. traveling 2-6 hours round trip. As for buying motors off of Ebay...Ebay can be a dumping ground for bad or wore out motors. I would make sure the people you are buying motors from have a good "feedback" on selling motors. I've sold motors to people who have raced mini sprints, dwarf cars, and modlites...and I can't tell you the numerous horror stories I've heard. I hope more racers will follow in the tire tracks of the racers up in the New England area. Jerry
44Dwarf		#3	[-]
Posts: 999 (07/08/08 06:15 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I found with my 600 car i was just as fast with it as i was with my older 1052! When raced against the big motor cars on a paved 1/3 mile track the big motors would pull up to me going in to the corners but i'd pull better comeing out. There was a 600cc running with the big motor group up north and it won several times last year. with smaller motor it about gearing it spot on and being smooth. No hanking the wheel or stomping the pedals. I hope more clubs go this route too but i also hope some open motor clubs stay the way they are. 44 "Smok'in the competition NOT Tobacco" "Transplant organs, Don't bury them!" Not to be confused with dwarf44, 44 or Buck44
classic379	600	#4	[-]
Posts: 128 (07/08/08 08:18 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	good morning dennis. i was wondering if you would drive a 600. after being in a 1000 would you come back to a 600, or would it be to slow or boring to you. i have a 1200 and i cant handle the power asa everyone knows so i belive it to be a benefit to a ne driver like me, but would and old fast racer like yourself want the smaller motor. also who in are club would leave it stock or just dump money in to the 600 and end up with a bigger cost in the long run.
diehl18	GOING 600	#5	[-]
Posts: 3 (07/08/08 09:46 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	ROB, I WOULD NOT HAVE A PROBLEM GOING TO A 600 MOTOR, WITH ME IT'S ABOUT BEING COMPETITIVE AS LONG AS EVERYBODY HAS THE SAME MOTOR IT WILL BE CLOSE RACING WITH THOSE THAT CAN DRIVE. I THINK THE WAY IT IS NOW THE GUY WITH THE MOST MONEY IS OUT FRONT. I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD BE RUNNING THE MODS AND THE CLASSIC'S TOGETHER. THERE ARE WAYS TO KEEP PEOPLE FROM SPENDING BIG MONEY ON THESE MOTORS. FOR ONE NO CARBS, FUEL INJECTION ONLY. STOCK WIRING HARNESS RIGHT FROM THE BIKE.I TALKED TO ALAIN AND HE IS FOR IT.I WOULD LIKE TO COME BACK RACING BUT I'AM NOT GOING TO BUY A ZX1200 AND THAT IS WHAT IT IS GOING TO TAKE TO BE COMPETITIVE WITH OUR GROUP.
Jeff14R		#6	[-]
Posts: 354 (07/08/08 02:12 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Last Edited By: Jeff14R 07/09/08 08:04 AM. Edited 1 times.
44Dwarf		#7	[-]
Posts: 1001 (07/08/08 02:20 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	"The only way to get rid of that would be to seal them or have a claim, and you know that isn't happening anytime soon. " Thats the beauty in the 600 club everones on the same motor same computer. With the computer swap rule the guy who spends $$ to flash his box will get detected when the backmark slow guy all of a sudden next week is the the lead. With only 1 motor in place the tech personal can easly compare any questionable part. Sure people will still spend $$ but it help keep it down. One place i feel the NE club whent backwards was the muffler rule. When the club started we had to run a ARVIN TURBO II muffler rules called out a supplyer and part number. It was a $12.95 muffler at the time (its 14.95 today) someone showed up with a $200 flowmaster on a car and they let him run cause it was what he had............now there all running diffrent mufflers. Thankfully they did vote not to make them open pipes. "Smok'in the competition NOT Tobacco" "Transplant organs, Don't bury them!" Not to be confused with dwarf44, 44 or Buck44
Jeff14R		#8	[-]
Posts: 355 (07/08/08 08:20 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Last Edited By: Jeff14R 07/09/08 08:04 AM. Edited 1 times.
smooth racer		#9	[-]
Posts: 274 (07/08/08 08:40 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	This is the kind of stuff that is hurting car count!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's called RACING not WHO IS WILLING TO SPEND THE MOST MONEY. I guess I will never understand why some racers are willing to spend so much money to win $50 and a $10 trophy Jerry
gphillips		#10	[-]
Posts: 69 (07/08/08 09:48 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I really like the idea of using, for lack of a better word, a "Spec" engine. A couple of friends and I have been kicking around the idea of trying to get Mod-Lites/Dwarf Cars started around here. One of the rules we have been looking at is some type of engine rule that would involving sealing the engines and then either some type of claim or possibly an engine swap. Right now we are still in the talking stage and seeing the thoughts and ideas in this thread are leading me to believe that we maybe on to something. Please keep the ideas coming. Greg
Jeff14R		#11	[-]
Posts: 356 (10/14/79 02:15 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Last Edited By: Jeff14R 07/09/08 08:04 AM. Edited 1 times.
diehl18	600 motors	#12	[-]
Posts: 4 (07/08/08 10:19 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Look guys we can always find a way to complicate things. again I'am trying to come up with a way to get the car count up and get the price of racing down. I agree you are aways going to have guys that will spend more dollars then sense. But! if you have bigger car counts you have better racing more fan and track enthusiasm. if you take that pumped up ZX1200 and sell it for $3000 and buy a 600 for even $1000 you have $2000 to get you to the track for the season and I bet you will have just as much fun If not more racing with 20-25 cars then you will racing with 10. The new Hampshire group is the proof in the pudding. IT'S WORKING FOR THEM, I give them a lot of Praise for sticking to their game plan.
smooth racer		#13	[-]
Posts: 275 (07/09/08 12:24 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	When I bought that truck from you, Jeff, (several years ago) things were a lot different. Tires are better now. Chassis' have better geometry. Look at shock/spring technology. This all plays in to the hands of the bigger motors. If all things are equal ( driver and setup)...the motors that have the additional 25 to 30 hp are going to be the front runners more times than not....if it didn't make any difference...then why would anyone spend the extra money to "build up" a motor? The 07-08 gsxr motors are going for $1000 for the 600cc, $1400 for the 750cc and $2500 for the 1000cc. I think the motors should remain stock to keep the cost down, no matter what motor you go with. Not only does it cost extra money to "build one", it also cost more to maintain them. Take for instance...I bought my 2000, zx12, 7 yrs. ago...I havn't even done one thing to it, but change the oil when needed. I've been running every other weekend. In the beginning, what hurt car count was the rough driving not being addressed...today, that doesn't seem to be as big of an issue as it was. I think Dennis has said it all very nicely....and yes, Jeff, you are right...."The only thing hurting car count is cars not coming to the track.".....I guess we just need to actually find out WHY their not coming?
smooth racer		#14	[-]
Posts: 276 (07/09/08 05:30 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	In order to help start a 600 or 750 class, I am willing to sell the motors at cost.............. Give me a call Dennis. Jerry, 352-338-9060
CJRaceCars		#15	[-]
Posts: 78 (07/09/08 01:12 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Great ideas Greg, Those simple few we have here in California that are interested in Mod Lites have the same opinion. I wish it was as simple as buying a G.M. 602 or 604 . but as it stands we are at the mercy of the Japanese engines and their constant evolution. With this in mind I think we have several hurdles to over come before we reach the concept of the "crate motor". 1 is the seals themselves, I have experience in other forms of spec motor racing it is clear that seals can be removed without any signs of tampering. I believe it is possible to create a tamper resistant seal but work needs to be done in this area. 2, A "fair" claim is being tried in a few classes around the country and I believe this is a great way to restrict those who wish to spend till they win regardless of the rules . I have seen way to many classes that have 3 or 4 guys that are simply faster by dollar than the rest of the field. I think this is the #1 reason for low car counts regardless of the class of cars racing. Also, along with an engine claim rule a shock claim rule has to go along ,if not then the guy who was spending a ton of money in their motor will spend the same money on suspension parts such as shocks. I feel a good example of this has been the evolution of the stock clip modified and I also see it in the crate motor late models. So the questions remain how do you police the engines. I sure way would be a chassis dyno,however a portable one to take to the track ? though not impossible it's not very practical or cost effective for an association . I have attempted to contact Suzuki about a possible crate engine and they respectfully show no interest. So what do you guys think of the idea of the crate motor Japanese engine ? I think it's an awsome idea and one that I cant wait to be involved in,but how? IMHO I think if enough people like the idea then it can happen with hard work. So lets keep this thread going with ideas . Just a simple opinion Charles
gphillips		#16	[-]
Posts: 70 (07/09/08 09:11 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Hey Charles, sounds like we are kind of on the same track. I had been thinking about using a system similar to what the UMP crate late models are using, in that the series would keep one, maybe two sealed motors and if some one was winning every week, it would be a simple motor swap. Then their motor would go to some one respected to see if it was legal and if so they would have the choice of their motor back or just keeping the tracks motor (their motor would then become one of the extra the track keeps). If its illegal then they are done for the year. I know it sounds extreme, but the only way to make a rule work is to police it and make the penalty for breaking it severe. As far as shocks, what we have been thinking is to contact a few suppliers and use a spec shock from those companies. I am really interested in some type of "create" engine. So anything I can do to help, let me know. Anyother questions or comments or if you just want to bounce or discuss ideas you can email me at gphillips42051@yahoo.com Greg
44Dwarf		#17	[-]
Posts: 1004 (07/10/08 06:18 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Claim rules do not work. What you end up with are granades. I've seen in in the "pure stock" V8 classes. The big $ guys build a motor for one race. Then they win and floor it in nuetral coming off the track and blow it up. One local guy even whent as far as to weld the conecting rods! back marker claimed the motr 2 race later it was junk he pulled the pan to freashed it up and found the con rods were junk and the crank scored to hell. All you need is a minimum set of rules that are inforced with a hammer! No wiggle room you break a rule your done. Wish more track saw things that way.. "Smok'in the competition NOT Tobacco" "Transplant organs, Don't bury them!" Not to be confused with dwarf44, 44 or Buck44
diehl18	600 motors	#18	[-]
Posts: 5 (07/10/08 04:36 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Anyone know of a site where you can get the horsepower and torque of the different 600 motors Suzuki, Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki for years 05 to 07. Thanks Dennis
Twister Chassis	Motorcycle specifications	#19	[-]
Posts: 224 (07/10/08 06:03 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I use a web site called . motorcycle specific . it list all of the motorcycle companies . Suzuki's 2008 600GSXR 125hp@13500 Twister chassis Last Edited By: Twister Chassis 07/10/08 06:08 PM. Edited 1 times.
48dwarf	600 class	#20	[-]
Posts: 19 (07/10/08 06:24 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I run in the 600 class in N E for the last three years . I have had more fun now than I did running the big motors at whip city on the dirt . I spent around 4k for the I'm running now . In three years I have pobroly spent around $300 to repair my car . Besides buying tires . Normally a set of tires will last almost a race season . I know that some of us would travel once or twice a year to different tracks . Right now we basically one our home track in Hudson , N.H. We have been invited to 4 or 5 different tracks this year . We have a bunch of good people that run in this class . The only problem we are seeing that a couple of the young ones try to drive a little over their heads . As a group we talk to them to calm their driving . If it keeps happening we ask them to leave for the season .

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